http://lindblut.tumblr.com/post/95189687784/theres-plenty-evidence-witnesses-robbery

tinyfishbowl:

stalhjelm:

tinyfishbowl:

lindblut:

stalhjelm:

lindblut:

>There’s plenty evidence (witnesses, robbery footage) suggesting that Brown was not such a gentle giant. We don’t know that he didn’t threaten the cop (who was injured). We don’t even know the full story, but everyone already decided it’s “racism”.

Can you provide me with trustworthy…

(Reaganlodge here, this is just my reblog/written tumblr)


The robbery probably is unrelated to Brown getting shot, like you said. Reason I bring it up is because there was footage of him robbing and physically terrorizing/threatening a storekeeper half his size shortly before the shooting. This doesn’t paint a picture of someone who would do everything in his power to respectfully avoid escalating an encounter with a police officer.

Let’s also take a glimpse at his SoundCloud page, where he raps about killing, robbing, “putting whites at the bottom”, and getting bitches/ho’s (the only woman he seems to talk positively about is his grandma). This was probably just lyrical fantasy of his (much like metalheads who sing about violence and mayhem while still living with their parents and painting Warhammer figurines), but it also doesn’t paint a picture of someone who’s respectful or reluctant to use violence.

Think of it this way, if a 6’4 290lb man was willing to commit a robbery and physically terrorizing people in a camera-filled convenience store, do you think he’s also the kind of person to peacefully comply and not potentially escalate when a cop stops him?

I do not have any reason to believe the people spreading things from their pov any less versus what the media and official bodies decide is share-worthy.

Fair enough. Take a look at this footage of witnesses to the shooting moments after it happened. Listen carefully. In short, one of them describes Brown as having gotten violent with the cop, a shot going off inside/around the car, Brown running, cop yelling “FREEZE”, Brown stopping and taunting, then charging at the cop and THEN being shot.

Obviously we don’t know if that’s how it really happened. I don’t have any reason to believe or doubt the neighbor’s story, but, after seeing Brown’s previous love of theft and violence, it doesn’t sound wholly unreasonable. On the other hand the preliminary autopsy (apparently there’s going to be more) didn’t immediately notice signs of a struggle, like you said. In any case there’s enough conflicting stories that to immediately declare RACIST MURDER on one hand, or VIOLENT THUG, HEROIC COP on the other, is basically just playing into the media game to get people hypervigilant, angry, and WE MUST DO SOMETHING’d over something not even they know the truth about.

Before I go further, let me emphasize: I do not trust cops. If you have a certain type of pistol that their rich bosses don’t want you to have, or own a certain harmless plant that gives you the giggles, it is their job to ruin your life and chances for future employment by arresting you and putting you in prison. I think it’s fucked up that some police departments are getting better vehicles and armor than I had in Afghanistan. The prison-for-profit system in the US is horrific and evil, and police departments have to make arrests to feed it, so all of my interactions with cops are “Be respectful and polite, but always assume they’re out to make you a number in their quota”. I’ve worked with them enough to know that they’re basically a gang that happens to be legal, which can be a good or bad thing depending how much they like you. I would not be surprised one bit if this cop was needlessly disrespectful/harassing in his initial encounter with Brown or if he used excessive force in the ensuing struggle that we still don’t know the full picture on.

So I absolutely agree with you that law enforcement in America is on a frightening power trip. Couple that with military equipment and improved spying, and you’ve got a lot to worry about. But despite all my grievances with domestic LEO, the FOX/BreitBart/Limbaugh pro-police vs MSNBC/Sharpton/NAACP social justice agendas latching on to this event and making a morality crusade out of their desired outcome, before anybody knows all the facts, is grotesque, and I have absolutely nothing worthwhile to gain by picking either of those sides… Who are all funded by Big Money in the first place. It’s a circus. It’s better for funding and viewership to get people riled up and angry about what MIGHT have happened, rather than bore them with “well here’s what do know, but it’s too early to tell what really happened.

I’m going to reblog this here also for other people to read.

I think it’s important to look at this issue from all sides before making up your mind, which is why I’m reluctant to reblog anything regarding Ferguson at all.

A few days ago there was a post going around about the officer who supposely shot Mike Brown, but turns out it wasn’t him and the guy who was posted there was harassed and hiw family was frightened for their and their son’s well being. People are too quick to jump the gun (no pun intended, also obviously from previous reblogs regarding other matters, I am no exception to that)

As for the riots;
There has been an astonishing number of videos showing black people dying or getting beaten by the hands of policemen this year that have surfaced the internet, so the shooting, unjust or not, might have been just the last straw that broke the camel’s back.

I hope the protests stay peaceful from the protester’s side, it’s sad that the police feels the need to show up in riot gear and get other branches of enforcement envolved when all they face are people who want to be heard out.

Which brings us back to the cops; them being like a gang makes sense, and I can confirm that with first hand experience of a co-worker who’s been with the police for a while. The problem with them is that they tend to have ‘each other’s back’, meaning they’ll help each other getting the law out of their hair and trying to cover shit up when they did wrong; it’s awful.

I think having cameras installed in their gear that records their doings and let the footage be controlled by another institution that otherwise has no ties to the police would be a good solution. Appearently just having cameras on their gear is already enough to cut down abuse by more than 50%.

———————————————————————

As for the cockiness of the american police….
I remember when I first watched this video and got really mad;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTvtkUPjgXk

I mean yeah that german dude was speeding, but wow, way to be an elitist dick about.

And the threatening with buttsex rape is just disrespectful and tasteless. Also no one’s going to jail for speeding ONCE, by 30mph too much - what a prick.

P.S.: we have speed limits on the autobahn, too. If you wanna be a smartass at least make sure you know what the fuck you’re babbling about.

Whether he struggled or not YOU DO NOT FUCKING SHOOT SOMEONE FOR RESISTING ARREST ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE UNARMED

Police officers are trained to physically subdue, mace, and/or taze people resisting arrest, NOT GUN THEM DOWN.

You can look at it however you want, but whether or not Brown was doing something wrong does not matter when he was a victim of EXCESSIVE FORCE.

If you for one second think stealing or resisting arrest justifies being KILLED then you deserve a hard slap to the face.

Depends how you define “resisting arrest”. Brown could’ve “resisted arrest” any number of ways, from nonviolently trying to flee or make it difficult for the officer to move him… Or by threatening the officer or attacking him. The bottom line is that we don’t know yet what exactly he did to resist arrest, so it’s unreasonable to claim the officer used excessive force just yet.

I’m gonna go long here, so before I do, the tl;dr version is: Brown seemed like a violent fuckhead, but as a free man I don’t trust cops and assume they’re out to defend THEIR interests as group before they’re out to defend anyone else’s, and presume there’s always a coverup.

Now let me explain a couple things about nonlethal methods of subduing people:

MACE:
Mace, aka OC, is a fucking joke. 4/5 of the time it’ll work on the average person and make them flop over screaming, key word there being AVERAGE person; someone with little to no aggression or experience in violence/force. Everyday people who, when met with a threat - such as an asshole cop - will comply with it to minimize pain and suffering.

In most events where police use mace, things are quickly moving and they can hope for maybe getting a small amount of it in the civilian’s face (except if it’s a protest where people are peacefully sitting and making things easy for the officer’s mace-aiming!). I’ve attended training where Marines were required to take a solid, steady, CONCENTRATED stream across the eyes, not the quick splash most drunken brawlers get from a cop, and then go on a 2 minute rampage where they run back and forth across a field while pummelling multiple opponents in padded armor, with OC spray still cooking their face. Also, it’s not very difficult for an especially aggressive/determined person to turn someone else’s mace on them.

If Brown was nonviolently resisting arrest, then yeah, murder. Now if he was violently resisting (as the police story, and a few witnesses claim), let’s consider Brown’s demonstration of above-average physical force in the robbery footage, on top of his size advantage… Mace would be an utterly preposterous choice to make. If a man that large is barrelling down on you, and you have a gun, you HAVE to assume he will disarm you and use that firearm on you if you allow him to get in close enough to make that happen.

One of the first rules with using a firearm is to not let the threat get close enough in the first place to where you can no longer fire on them, or to where they have a chance to grab your weapon. Therefore if they’ve given you REASONABLE cause to believe they are not going to stop coming at you despite being given CLEAR warnings, you better shoot before they get any closer.

Tasers

You get one shot with a taser. One shot, and you’re shakily pumped on adrenaline and dealing with a moving target that might or might not be affected by it, depending if the shock barbs connect properly on the target when you fire. Clothing can absorb the shock, and it isn’t unheard of for some people to power through a connected taser shot and fuck you up.

So whenever I hear people say “Meh, I don’t need a gun for protection. I’ve got a mace/taser”, all I can hope for is that they never have to defend themselves from a real aggressor, because anyone who’s determined enough, drugged up enough, or smart enough, will know how to limit the effectiveness of either of those weapons and kill you.

A lot of people get lost in the sauce when they hear about an unarmed man being shot, whether by a cop or gun-owning civilian. What the general public with limited firearms experience doesn’t understand is that when you have a gun, you have a responsibility to maintain positive control of it. If someone assaulting you is aware you’re armed and is not deterred by the knowledge of your weapon, they have demonstrated to you that they are COMPLETELY committed to inflicting death or extreme injury on you, and are potentially going to disarm you and potentially use the gun against you.

And that is when you shoot until the threat stops, even if it takes 2 magazines.

So back to the question about whether or not the cop acted with excessive force for Brown resisting arrest… It all depends exactly what actions Brown took in resisting his arrest, and so far we don’t know the full story.

The police state and prison-for-profit system in the US is sick and sadistic, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out the cop did use excessive force and was a power-tripping fuckhead…But I also wouldn’t be surprised if Michael Brown made an already bad encounter worse with the kind of violent conduct he demonstrated in the robbery video.

Bottom line: don’t trust cops, but also don’t rush to christen a dead robber and asshole as a martyr.

I feel as though, from the way you’re talking about this subject, you’re extremely uneducated on the frequency of unwarranted excessive force that black men are commonly a victim of. Whether or not Brown was a “gentle giant” or a “robber and asshole” his death is one of many, and people are upset that this continues to happen even after his death.

Yes, people are rushing to side with the Brown family. But all things considered? Wanting cops to face consequences for the questionable use of their firearms is the right side to be on.

Now,

4/5 of the time it’ll work on the average person and make them flop over screaming, key word there being AVERAGE person; someone with little to no aggression or experience in violence/force.

For what reason would Brown not be considered an average person? He is not an ex solider, or someone otherwise trained in combat. Just because he probably lifted weights does not mean he has a pain tolerance different from the average person.

One of the first rules with using a firearm is to not let the threat get close enough in the first place to where you can no longer fire on them, or to where they have a chance to grab your weapon. Therefore if they’ve given you REASONABLE cause to believe they are not going to stop coming at you despite being given CLEAR warnings, you better shoot before they get any closer.

Yes, you should shoot them. Six times to be absolutely sure. One shot isn’t enough to deter someone from making a run at you, it’s like a video game. There’s a health bar.

So whenever I hear people say “Meh, I don’t need a gun for protection. I’ve got a mace/taser”, all I can hope for is that they never have to defend themselves from a real aggressor, because anyone who’s determined enough, drugged up enough, or smart enough, will know how to limit the effectiveness of either of those weapons and kill you.

Again, for what reason would you assume Brown had the ability to “power through” a taser? He was not “drugged up”, there’s nothing about him that would imply an ability to not be subdued by the mentioned weapons.

An important thing to consider is that using mace or a taser were not even attempted. And that if those options were truly poor choices, according to you, then why fire the weapon an excess of 6+ times? Especially when the person was at a distance from you?

I agree that there is not enough information currently available, but all things considered, I don’t believe that there is any justification for gunning down an unarmed person. And lets use common sense here, for what reason would Brown want to take the officers gun during the struggle in the car and presumably shoot him? How would he get away with it? Why would he, after already being shot, make a run at the cop?

Too much about the incident just doesn’t make sense.

But the important thing here, as I’ve already stated, is that his death is one of many. Even if you at all believe his death was warranted, there are many that are beyond a doubt unwarranted. To not talk about this issue and instead participate in the discussion of whether or not Brown was a less than perfect person is very inappropriate and insensitive. Even if it’s not your intention, by making his character an issue you are siding yourself with those who support officers in their use of excessive force against black men. Aka, racists.

I’m gonna respond to both yours and Avialan’s reblogs here since they overlap a little bit. Plus I just started classes, so I’m gonna be busy as hell from now on.

"you’re extremely uneducated on the frequency of unwarranted excessive force that black men are commonly a victim of."

Not really. A cursory glance across any social media or select news networks will inform me of plenty of that. It’s just not the topic I was on - I was explaining disparity of force. There’s enough people grappling with the racial question, but not many people explaining the reasoning behind lethal force, and so far it hasn’t been proven or disproven that lethal force was justified here.

"For what reason would Brown not be considered an average person? He is not an ex solider, or someone otherwise trained in combat. Just because he probably lifted weights does not mean he has a pain tolerance different from the average person."

If we assume that Brown initiated violent contact with the cop (big “if”. time will tell if the police story and certain witness accounts are true), put yourself in the cop’s overly shined shoes for a minute. You don’t know Brown. All you know is that he is being violent with you, punched you in the head, and he is really, really large and probably VERY strong. He knows you have a gun, yet he’s attacking you regardless, therefore you have to assume that he is fully committed to a life or death struggle with you, whether that’s due to mental issues, aggression-causing drugs, or a sober decision he’s acting upon for reasons unknown. That’s where you’d be justified (by any sane court) in shooting them, as a cop OR as a gun-carrying civilian.

It’s a disparity of force. If I’m 180 lbs, and the guy who just dazed me with a left-hook to my cranium is 6’4” and 290 lbs (Brown’s proportions), you’d have a very hard time convincing me that this guy is “unarmed” and unequipped to render severe physical harm or death on me.

But, I emphasize, this is all only -if- Brown made the first violent act and truly did threaten the cop’s life. If it turns out he didn’t and that the cop was just looking for trouble, then all this flies out the window and the cop is a murderer.

"Yes, you should shoot them. Six times to be absolutely sure. One shot isn’t enough to deter someone from making a run at you, it’s like a video game. There’s a health bar."

You’d shoot them however many times it takes to be certain that the threat is ended. The amount of bullets isn’t the problem, it’s the intent behind them that has to be investigated. There are numerous documented accounts of individuals being shot up to a dozen times and STILL being on their feet, coming at the shooter. The “one shot is enough” argument is largely a product of Hollywood. In real life shootouts, very rarely does anyone just take one bullet, clutch their gut, then topple over into a horse trough. It’s not unheard of for men in combat situations to be so high on adrenaline that they didn’t realize for whole minutes that they’d been shot. From a street perspective, take into account the possibility that the aggressive person who’s coming at you might be on meth. And then you also have to ask what caliber round this officer was firing. I don’t have this confirmed, but I’ve heard 9mm thrown around in this case. If that’s true, it would take a lot of 9mm to bring down a man that large unless you make a head shot first… Which is rare, since law enforcement and military personnel are trained to shoot center-mass.

"Again, for what reason would you assume Brown had the ability to “power through” a taser? He was not “drugged up”, there’s nothing about him that would imply an ability to not be subdued by the mentioned weapons."

I already described that tasers have only one shot. This cop was hospitalized for a head-injury from this event. We don’t know how severe, but if you’ve taken a blow to the head and dealing with a moving target, your aim has gone to shit in the first place. If you fire that taser and miss, you’re probably not going to have enough time to draw that handgun.

" And lets use common sense here, for what reason would Brown want to take the officers gun during the struggle in the car and presumably shoot him? How would he get away with it? Why would he, after already being shot, make a run at the cop?

"Too much about the incident just doesn’t make sense."

I generally agree. When you ask “why would Brown do that?”, well, why would he rob a store in broad daylight and physically accost people in it over some cheap cigars? We don’t know why he did that at the store, but the reason I bring it up is because it establishes unreasonably aggressive behavior by Brown (And this is why I brought up the robbery, Avialan). So when the police and (some) witnesses say Brown attacked the cop, I say “Well we don’t know enough to say that’s what happened, BUT it does not sound impossible either.”


"To not talk about this issue and instead participate in the discussion of whether or not Brown was a less than perfect person is very inappropriate and insensitive."

Well, I’m not a very sensitive person, so you win on that one. I’m not bringing up his character flaws to point and sputter and be like “OMG he cussed in his rap lyrics and smoked weed”. Leave that to the Conservatives. I’m saying that when you rob a store a short while before ending up dead in a vague altercation with the police, and evidence is slow to come to the public, I’m hesitant to assume you were the victim and the cop the murderer. Although the officer’s job IS to ruin people’s lives by feeding a sick prison-for-profit industry, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out he was acting with excess, there isn’t enough evidence for it yet.

On to Avialan:

"I am also very wary of justifying this use of excessive force because it would set an awful legal precedent. "

That’s just it, we don’t know yet that it was excessive force. Whether it’s civilian or LE, the lethal force used against another person has to be proportional to the danger they were in. It becomes disproportional (excessive), if that “threat” was running away or surrendering.


"also note same witness who says they saw them struggle also says he was running away when the majority of the shots occurred. if one is going to take eyewitness accounts as evidence one has to factor in that element as well. so, this points to the idea that the alleged struggle wasn’t when the officer killed him but after Brown created more distance between them. meanwhile, autopsy supports that the shots were not fired at close range."

Autopsy confirmed he was shot from the front: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

But there’s a lot the autopsy didn’t reveal. Supposedly there were no signs of physical struggle, which could contradict the police side of the story.

Regarding the questions about 6 shots being excessive, or Brown being unarmed, I think I explained that in the above paragraphs about disparity of force, so I won’t repost that all here. There’s also no such thing in the law enforcement or military world as “shooting to slow down” or firing “less lethal shots”. While people may survive insane bullet wounds, one bullet can still kill regardless, and that’s how any court will view it.

http://lindblut.tumblr.com/post/95189687784/theres-plenty-evidence-witnesses-robbery

tinyfishbowl:

lindblut:

stalhjelm:

lindblut:

>There’s plenty evidence (witnesses, robbery footage) suggesting that Brown was not such a gentle giant. We don’t know that he didn’t threaten the cop (who was injured). We don’t even know the full story, but everyone already decided it’s “racism”.

Can you provide me with trustworthy…

(Reaganlodge here, this is just my reblog/written tumblr)


The robbery probably is unrelated to Brown getting shot, like you said. Reason I bring it up is because there was footage of him robbing and physically terrorizing/threatening a storekeeper half his size shortly before the shooting. This doesn’t paint a picture of someone who would do everything in his power to respectfully avoid escalating an encounter with a police officer.

Let’s also take a glimpse at his SoundCloud page, where he raps about killing, robbing, “putting whites at the bottom”, and getting bitches/ho’s (the only woman he seems to talk positively about is his grandma). This was probably just lyrical fantasy of his (much like metalheads who sing about violence and mayhem while still living with their parents and painting Warhammer figurines), but it also doesn’t paint a picture of someone who’s respectful or reluctant to use violence.

Think of it this way, if a 6’4 290lb man was willing to commit a robbery and physically terrorizing people in a camera-filled convenience store, do you think he’s also the kind of person to peacefully comply and not potentially escalate when a cop stops him?

I do not have any reason to believe the people spreading things from their pov any less versus what the media and official bodies decide is share-worthy.

Fair enough. Take a look at this footage of witnesses to the shooting moments after it happened. Listen carefully. In short, one of them describes Brown as having gotten violent with the cop, a shot going off inside/around the car, Brown running, cop yelling “FREEZE”, Brown stopping and taunting, then charging at the cop and THEN being shot.

Obviously we don’t know if that’s how it really happened. I don’t have any reason to believe or doubt the neighbor’s story, but, after seeing Brown’s previous love of theft and violence, it doesn’t sound wholly unreasonable. On the other hand the preliminary autopsy (apparently there’s going to be more) didn’t immediately notice signs of a struggle, like you said. In any case there’s enough conflicting stories that to immediately declare RACIST MURDER on one hand, or VIOLENT THUG, HEROIC COP on the other, is basically just playing into the media game to get people hypervigilant, angry, and WE MUST DO SOMETHING’d over something not even they know the truth about.

Before I go further, let me emphasize: I do not trust cops. If you have a certain type of pistol that their rich bosses don’t want you to have, or own a certain harmless plant that gives you the giggles, it is their job to ruin your life and chances for future employment by arresting you and putting you in prison. I think it’s fucked up that some police departments are getting better vehicles and armor than I had in Afghanistan. The prison-for-profit system in the US is horrific and evil, and police departments have to make arrests to feed it, so all of my interactions with cops are “Be respectful and polite, but always assume they’re out to make you a number in their quota”. I’ve worked with them enough to know that they’re basically a gang that happens to be legal, which can be a good or bad thing depending how much they like you. I would not be surprised one bit if this cop was needlessly disrespectful/harassing in his initial encounter with Brown or if he used excessive force in the ensuing struggle that we still don’t know the full picture on.

So I absolutely agree with you that law enforcement in America is on a frightening power trip. Couple that with military equipment and improved spying, and you’ve got a lot to worry about. But despite all my grievances with domestic LEO, the FOX/BreitBart/Limbaugh pro-police vs MSNBC/Sharpton/NAACP social justice agendas latching on to this event and making a morality crusade out of their desired outcome, before anybody knows all the facts, is grotesque, and I have absolutely nothing worthwhile to gain by picking either of those sides… Who are all funded by Big Money in the first place. It’s a circus. It’s better for funding and viewership to get people riled up and angry about what MIGHT have happened, rather than bore them with “well here’s what do know, but it’s too early to tell what really happened.

I’m going to reblog this here also for other people to read.

I think it’s important to look at this issue from all sides before making up your mind, which is why I’m reluctant to reblog anything regarding Ferguson at all.

A few days ago there was a post going around about the officer who supposely shot Mike Brown, but turns out it wasn’t him and the guy who was posted there was harassed and hiw family was frightened for their and their son’s well being. People are too quick to jump the gun (no pun intended, also obviously from previous reblogs regarding other matters, I am no exception to that)

As for the riots;
There has been an astonishing number of videos showing black people dying or getting beaten by the hands of policemen this year that have surfaced the internet, so the shooting, unjust or not, might have been just the last straw that broke the camel’s back.

I hope the protests stay peaceful from the protester’s side, it’s sad that the police feels the need to show up in riot gear and get other branches of enforcement envolved when all they face are people who want to be heard out.

Which brings us back to the cops; them being like a gang makes sense, and I can confirm that with first hand experience of a co-worker who’s been with the police for a while. The problem with them is that they tend to have ‘each other’s back’, meaning they’ll help each other getting the law out of their hair and trying to cover shit up when they did wrong; it’s awful.

I think having cameras installed in their gear that records their doings and let the footage be controlled by another institution that otherwise has no ties to the police would be a good solution. Appearently just having cameras on their gear is already enough to cut down abuse by more than 50%.

———————————————————————

As for the cockiness of the american police….
I remember when I first watched this video and got really mad;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTvtkUPjgXk

I mean yeah that german dude was speeding, but wow, way to be an elitist dick about.

And the threatening with buttsex rape is just disrespectful and tasteless. Also no one’s going to jail for speeding ONCE, by 30mph too much - what a prick.

P.S.: we have speed limits on the autobahn, too. If you wanna be a smartass at least make sure you know what the fuck you’re babbling about.

Whether he struggled or not YOU DO NOT FUCKING SHOOT SOMEONE FOR RESISTING ARREST ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE UNARMED

Police officers are trained to physically subdue, mace, and/or taze people resisting arrest, NOT GUN THEM DOWN.

You can look at it however you want, but whether or not Brown was doing something wrong does not matter when he was a victim of EXCESSIVE FORCE.

If you for one second think stealing or resisting arrest justifies being KILLED then you deserve a hard slap to the face.

Depends how you define “resisting arrest”. Brown could’ve “resisted arrest” any number of ways, from nonviolently trying to flee or make it difficult for the officer to move him… Or by threatening the officer or attacking him. The bottom line is that we don’t know yet what exactly he did to resist arrest, so it’s unreasonable to claim the officer used excessive force just yet.

I’m gonna go long here, so before I do, the tl;dr version is: Brown seemed like a violent fuckhead, but as a free man I don’t trust cops and assume they’re out to defend THEIR interests as group before they’re out to defend anyone else’s, and presume there’s always a coverup.

Now let me explain a couple things about nonlethal methods of subduing people:

MACE:
Mace, aka OC, is a fucking joke. 4/5 of the time it’ll work on the average person and make them flop over screaming, key word there being AVERAGE person; someone with little to no aggression or experience in violence/force. Everyday people who, when met with a threat - such as an asshole cop - will comply with it to minimize pain and suffering.

In most events where police use mace, things are quickly moving and they can hope for maybe getting a small amount of it in the civilian’s face (except if it’s a protest where people are peacefully sitting and making things easy for the officer’s mace-aiming!). I’ve attended training where Marines were required to take a solid, steady, CONCENTRATED stream across the eyes, not the quick splash most drunken brawlers get from a cop, and then go on a 2 minute rampage where they run back and forth across a field while pummelling multiple opponents in padded armor, with OC spray still cooking their face. Also, it’s not very difficult for an especially aggressive/determined person to turn someone else’s mace on them.

If Brown was nonviolently resisting arrest, then yeah, murder. Now if he was violently resisting (as the police story, and a few witnesses claim), let’s consider Brown’s demonstration of above-average physical force in the robbery footage, on top of his size advantage… Mace would be an utterly preposterous choice to make. If a man that large is barrelling down on you, and you have a gun, you HAVE to assume he will disarm you and use that firearm on you if you allow him to get in close enough to make that happen.

One of the first rules with using a firearm is to not let the threat get close enough in the first place to where you can no longer fire on them, or to where they have a chance to grab your weapon. Therefore if they’ve given you REASONABLE cause to believe they are not going to stop coming at you despite being given CLEAR warnings, you better shoot before they get any closer.

Tasers

You get one shot with a taser. One shot, and you’re shakily pumped on adrenaline and dealing with a moving target that might or might not be affected by it, depending if the shock barbs connect properly on the target when you fire. Clothing can absorb the shock, and it isn’t unheard of for some people to power through a connected taser shot and fuck you up.

So whenever I hear people say “Meh, I don’t need a gun for protection. I’ve got a mace/taser”, all I can hope for is that they never have to defend themselves from a real aggressor, because anyone who’s determined enough, drugged up enough, or smart enough, will know how to limit the effectiveness of either of those weapons and kill you.

A lot of people get lost in the sauce when they hear about an unarmed man being shot, whether by a cop or gun-owning civilian. What the general public with limited firearms experience doesn’t understand is that when you have a gun, you have a responsibility to maintain positive control of it. If someone assaulting you is aware you’re armed and is not deterred by the knowledge of your weapon, they have demonstrated to you that they are COMPLETELY committed to inflicting death or extreme injury on you, and are potentially going to disarm you and potentially use the gun against you.

And that is when you shoot until the threat stops, even if it takes 2 magazines.

So back to the question about whether or not the cop acted with excessive force for Brown resisting arrest… It all depends exactly what actions Brown took in resisting his arrest, and so far we don’t know the full story.

The police state and prison-for-profit system in the US is sick and sadistic, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out the cop did use excessive force and was a power-tripping fuckhead…But I also wouldn’t be surprised if Michael Brown made an already bad encounter worse with the kind of violent conduct he demonstrated in the robbery video.

Bottom line: don’t trust cops, but also don’t rush to christen a dead robber and asshole as a martyr.

http://lindblut.tumblr.com/post/95189687784/theres-plenty-evidence-witnesses-robbery

lindblut:

>There’s plenty evidence (witnesses, robbery footage) suggesting that Brown was not such a gentle giant. We don’t know that he didn’t threaten the cop (who was injured). We don’t even know the full story, but everyone already decided it’s “racism”.

Can you provide me with trustworthy…

(Reaganlodge here, this is just my reblog/written tumblr)


The robbery probably is unrelated to Brown getting shot, like you said. Reason I bring it up is because there was footage of him robbing and physically terrorizing/threatening a storekeeper half his size shortly before the shooting. This doesn’t paint a picture of someone who would do everything in his power to respectfully avoid escalating an encounter with a police officer.

Let’s also take a glimpse at his SoundCloud page, where he raps about killing, robbing, “putting whites at the bottom”, and getting bitches/ho’s (the only woman he seems to talk positively about is his grandma). This was probably just lyrical fantasy of his (much like metalheads who sing about violence and mayhem while still living with their parents and painting Warhammer figurines), but it also doesn’t paint a picture of someone who’s respectful or reluctant to use violence.

Think of it this way, if a 6’4 290lb man was willing to commit a robbery and physically terrorizing people in a camera-filled convenience store, do you think he’s also the kind of person to peacefully comply and not potentially escalate when a cop stops him?

I do not have any reason to believe the people spreading things from their pov any less versus what the media and official bodies decide is share-worthy.

Fair enough. Take a look at this footage of witnesses to the shooting moments after it happened. Listen carefully. In short, one of them describes Brown as having gotten violent with the cop, a shot going off inside/around the car, Brown running, cop yelling “FREEZE”, Brown stopping and taunting, then charging at the cop and THEN being shot.

Obviously we don’t know if that’s how it really happened. But, after seeing Brown’s previous love of theft and violence, it doesn’t sound wholly unreasonable. On the other hand the preliminary autopsy (apparently there’s going to be more) didn’t immediately notice signs of a struggle, like you said, which could cast a lot of doubt on that witness account.

In any case there’s enough conflicting stories that to immediately declare RACIST MURDER on one hand, or VIOLENT THUG, HEROIC COP on the other, is basically just playing into the media game to get people hypervigilant, angry, and WE MUST DO SOMETHING’d over something not even they know the truth about. Do we have ANY kind of record of this cop being racist, or is it simply because he’s white and Brown was black that we have to assume it was a racially-prompted police shooting?

Before I go further, let me emphasize: I do not trust cops and neither should you. If you have a certain type of pistol that their rich bosses don’t want you to have, or own a certain harmless pill makes your night at the club more fun, it is their job to completely ruin your life and chances for future employment by arresting you and putting you in prison.

I think it’s fucked up that some police departments are getting better vehicles and armor than I had in Afghanistan. The prison-for-profit system in the US is horrific and evil, and police departments have to make arrests to feed it, so all of my interactions with cops are “Be respectful and polite, but always assume they’re out to make you a number in their quota”. I’ve worked with them enough to know that they’re basically a gang that happens to be legal, which can be a good or bad thing depending how much they like you. I would not be surprised one bit if this cop was needlessly disrespectful/harassing in his initial encounter with Brown or if he used excessive force as things escalated.

So I absolutely agree with you that law enforcement in America is on a frightening power trip. Couple that with military equipment and improved spying, and you’ve got a lot to worry about. But despite all my grievances with domestic LEO, the FOX/BreitBart/Limbaugh pro-police vs MSNBC/Sharpton/NAACP social justice agendas latching on to this event and making a morality crusade out of their desired outcome, before anybody knows all the facts, is grotesque, and I have absolutely nothing worthwhile to gain by picking either of those sides… Who are all funded by Big Money in the first place. It’s a circus. It’s better for funding and viewership to get people riled up and angry about what MIGHT have happened, rather than bore them with “well here’s what do know, but it’s too early to tell what really happened.


Daily reminder that prohibitionism is for squares. If you think it’s good to have police kidnap and put someone in a state-funded steel cage where they’ll be brutalized and sexually assaulted for years simply because they owned a certain quantity of plants, mushrooms or chemicals with far less harm potential than your average Walgreens-bought tobacco/alcohol substances, you’re messed up.

"OMG a mass shooting in the news. This is why only the police should carry firearms!"

(…6 months later)

“OMG a policeman shot an unarmed person. The police are corrupt and racist!”


repeat to infinity.

Moving apartments right now. Updates later.

yukio-mishima:

Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters

I way underpriced myself for this recent run of commissioned illustrations, but didn’t realize it til I saw how fast I burn through grocery money now that I’m trying to get swole. Shit’s changed since I last did freelance art fulltime in 2008.

Guh, can’t wait to finish this batch and price myself properly so I can afford protein powder and Bandcamp downloads once or twice a month.

In good news I took a break from everything last night, reclined on the couch and listened to psytrance and Wagner preludes while watching incense burn.

patrickat:

White privilege is posting a manifesto on Youtube and carrying out a mass shooting that causes more deaths than the Boston Marathon bombing and the media doesn’t label you a terrorist.

Do you crybabies even read the news before you decide to rage about privilege? Elliot Rodger was half-White/half-Asian, and complained in his videos about white women not sleeping with his stupid creepy ass, and boasted about planning to kill them.

Was about to bicycle to the gym, then this started falling from the sky.

Ice from the heavens! WHAT TERRIBLE WIZARD OF THE WINDS IS BEHIND THIS?

Forgot to mention that during the RVA NoiseFest when I went to the Kroger for some eats, I saw some guy walking down Broad St., wearing huge baggy JNCO jeans, middle-parted bleach-blonde long hair, and a bunch of celtic cross and/or ankh pendants.

I was too astonished to take a photo, and I wasn’t sure anyone would believe me, but a couple other guys at the noisefest said they saw him too.

The sightings ARE real. The missing link still walks among us.

If your Identity is so weak that you need it affirmed by pop culture, a swindling government, and corporate advertising - stirred to joy when it’s recognized, boiled to indignation when it’s ignored - you’re a slave. Meat-caste. Cattle. Consumer.

Still bummed that I missed out on moot at Ulfheim last weekend due to work on the other side of Virginia. Spent the evening with my sketchbook, Casio and based D’Annunzio.

Disney Adventures was a pretty cool little magazine that ran during the early 90s. Usually it was about videogames, comics and movies, but they always had some really cool educational historic stuff in there geared towards kid audiences. Remembered this illustration from their issue about Vikings, and was able to find it after some short Googling.

grimnir:

May Wolfmoot 2014. Photos by Susan C. and Rodney H.


Bummed I missed out again. Looks like it was an awesome time.